kurtster wrote:
What they want is liberty, not death. You'd think any American would get that.

No justice (liberty), no peace.

 R_P wrote: 
For every action, there is a reaction.  Those that initiate an action do not always get the reaction intended.

In other words, it is usually a good idea to leave a sleeping dog alone. or don't poke the bear.

Those that may wake up a sleeping dog or poke the bear may not live to tell about it.  That is the risk you take.

And there are some that seek suicide or death by cop by shooting at them hoping that the cop shoots back.

I think that what is going on in Gaza is the latter.

That is about as nuanced as you're going get out of me.

 kurtster wrote:
The deal is mostly yours. Your forever war. Your tax money. Your complicity. Your history.

 R_P wrote: 
So sorry to disappoint you.  That is all you'll get from me.  Deal with it.

Khamas...

 kurtster wrote:
Simplistic Manichaean paranoia. B&W. No nuance.

Here you go, Joe...

 R_P wrote: 
You can trust Hamas to tell the truth all you like.  They must be telling the truth because they are the good guys and real freedom fighters, right ?

Thread (2 of 13 posts)

 rgio wrote:
That's what the Israelis tell him (via Fox). Bogus.

We can watch Hamas' (and others like PFLP) action videos daily (though not on Fox).

 rgio wrote: 
I've been paying attention to the reporting.  The reporting I've been listening to has been correct so far, so I trust it.
 

Yes, always have.  And have also been against the 'settlements" in the West Bank.

Let the U N do it.

Maybe the U N should even move their headquarters there.  That would solve all kinds of problems.

 kurtster wrote:

How do you know they have Hamas cornered?

Biden isn't saying don't destroy Hamas... he, and the rest of the world mostly... are saying that you don't need to kill tens of thousands of people in the process.  Take some time.  Be strategic.  The Israeli problem is that Benji doesn't have time.  He's working for his own preservation... something you support at home and abroad.

For clarity's sake...

Do you support a 2 state solution? 

If so, who should control Gaza after the fighting?

 rgio wrote: 
First, I said, IMO.

Israel is at the end: their goal.  The have Hamas cornered in Raffa. 

And Biden is telling them "Don't"  Same as he told Iran and some of the other players.

"Don't" isn't working.


Destroying Hamas is the only way to separate the two.  

Do you have another way ?  If so what is it ?

 kurtster wrote:
There are 3 sides.  

It's irresponsible and pointless to have a conversation that ignores the realities of 5 million Palestinians.  You can argue they "voted" for this, but that's weak and ignorant.

Israel needs to explain their end game, and that is going to require a 2 state solution.  Without it, the rest of the regional players who want to support the US/Israel against Iran are going to have to remain silent.

Hamas needs to be destroyed, but indiscriminately killing tens of thousands of civilians in the process without an understanding of how it ends and what happens after that isn't acceptable.  If Israel wants the support of an ally, they have to detail their plans to that ally if they expect support in killing civilians.  

If you aren't willing to separate Palestinians and Hamas in the discussion, then you aren't serious about finding a rational, humane solution.

 kurtster wrote:
But wait, are you voting support for Israel/Palestine, or voting against Palestine/Israel?
In. 

 Beaker wrote: 
bump

IMO, there are only two sides to this.  You either support Israel or you support Hamas.

I support Israel.  Hamas started this round and it will be over only when Israel says so.  Israel has that right, unless Hamas outright surrenders, which isn't likely.

Judgement is not valid until and only until after the shooting has stopped and the smoke has cleared.

Sidebar.  IIRC Trump was impeached for withholding Congressionally approved military aid to Ukraine.  Biden is now doing the same to Israel.

Out. 

Inconvenient fact:

"Just to be clear, Hamas has now launched its fourth bomb attack on Kerem Shalom. THAT'S THE CROSSING WHERE THE AID YOU HAVE ALL DEMANDED MUST BE SENT TO GAZA GOES THROUGH. Four times."

UN general assembly votes to back Palestinian bid for membership
Assembly votes 143 to nine, with 25 abstentions, signalling Israel’s (and the US') growing isolation on the world stage

Meanwhile Israel shredded the UN Charter


Also means the US will have to defund the UN (according to US law)