Warning: file_get_contents(/home/www/settings/mirror_forum_db_enable_sql): failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /var/www/html/content/Forum/functions.php on line 8
Your numbers do not include local taxes and sales taxes earned on retaxing the taxes. I did do an in depth study some 5 to 10 years ago (and posted the results in a thread,) and came up with around $100 billion in total tax revenue from tobacco products. Yes the present revenue is declining due to fewer users. Healthcare costs were also much less 13 years ago. So I stand by my story.
Apparently I posted it 11 years ago referring to numbers I found some 2 years earlier. And that predates your earlier reference of 2014 to date.
Point taken about my numbers not including local sales taxes. (I don't understand what you mean by "sales taxes earned on relaxing the taxes"). However, I'm still skeptical that all taxes on tobacco in the US amount to $100 billion/year.
Your post of 11 years ago apparently misread some data points. You stated
" The NYC city tax (on top the federal tax) is $5.85 per pack. In Chicago, its $6.16."
But the page you linked to in your old post states
"Not shown here are local cigarette taxes, which can be substantial. In Chicago, Illinois, the combined state, county, and municipal taxes total to $6.16, while in New York City, smokers pay $5.85 per pack."
So...
At first glance, those local taxes might boost the total tax revenue to your $100 billion calculation (which unfortunately you didn't include in your 11 year-old post). BUT the Tax Foundation provides another page to show that states with high cigarette taxes see a lot of cigarettes smuggled in from other, lower-tax states. And a lot of cigarettes are avoiding taxation through smuggling.
California, for instance, is #1 in smuggled cigarettes entering the state—according to the tax foundation, about 52% of cigarettes are smuggled. That translates to $1, 474, 971, 856 in lost revenue. Massachusetts has 37.9% cigarettes smuggled in but loses far less tax revenue—$208,653,275.
So a calculation of tax revenue based on total cigs consumed x tax rate does not take into account all the smuggling done to avoid taxes. The numbers shown by the Tax Foundation are a far ways from $100 billion/yr.
Still, you likely have a point about tax revenue being diverted to purposes not at all related to the source of the tax revenue. But AFAICT that's municipalities have the right to do that for the most part.
As usual, the full quote ages even worse that you remember....
âI have concepts of a plan. Iâm not president right now. But if we come up with something, I would only change it if we come up with something thatâs better and less expensive. And there are concepts and options we have to do that. And youâll be hearing about it in the not too distant future." - September 10, 2024
Last night, his never before seen anything like it plan is to tell everyone "get your own". If obvious that individuals are much better negotiators than large groups. The art of the deal.
Location: At the dude ranch / above the sea Gender:
Posted:
Dec 18, 2025 - 12:17pm
rgio wrote:
I don't care which party you support (if any), or how you get your healthcare... Nobody has done anything to address/manage the healthcare issue since the ACA was enacted. Love it or hate it... it was an attempt that has provided a lot of benefit to a lot of Americans. Cutting it off now... is a massive political mistake.
I don't care which party you support (if any), or how you get your healthcare... Nobody has done anything to address/manage the healthcare issue since the ACA was enacted. Love it or hate it... it was an attempt that has provided a lot of benefit to a lot of Americans. Cutting it off now... is a massive political mistake.
Yes indeed. The primary point that I was trying to make is that these taxes almost never benefit those who pay the taxes.
It was a simple example (relatively speaking) of a much more complicated healthcare problem. The sin tax conversation is the easy side of the ethics debates,
but has nicely illustrated why nothing ever gets done.
All of that is meaningless if he's not getting laughs. Seriously, maybe by 2028 we won't be winning elections by social media shares, but if he's not funny and charming enough to make people notice his Reels and share them a lot, he's a nonstarter. You can rationalize it all you want but he's got to be more of a beer-drinkin' pal or something that has zero to do with running a country.
Democrats need to find a way to communicate with the working class again.
I'm not sure a guy like Newsom has those skills. He's got a lot of the right ingredients being intelligent, charismatic, maybe even practical in the sense he seems willing to learn/change, essentially an elite...but the working class seem to think that's not what is needed.
The democrats are loosing frequently, but they are loosing by a tiny margin, and I'm not sure if you re-run the election today that holds. No one is saying the Republicans need to re-tool to avoid a razor thin margin. What happens when trump dies (after the party and all)? Vance can't hold the coalition together, the power they have is all behind the curtain, there is no leader in the party other than trump, and he wants to pass the baton to his kids, how is that going to work?
Both parties need big shakeups. The electorate is the entity that really should be forcing the issue with a 3rd (and fourth/fifth) party(ies), but they are too locked into the marketing cycle.
All of that is meaningless if he's not getting laughs. Seriously, maybe by 2028 we won't be winning elections by social media shares, but if he's not funny and charming enough to make people notice his Reels and share them a lot, he's a nonstarter. You can rationalize it all you want but he's got to be more of a beer-drinkin' pal or something that has zero to do with running a country.
Democrats need to find a way to communicate with the working class again.
I'm not sure a guy like Newsom has those skills. He's got a lot of the right ingredients being intelligent, charismatic, maybe even practical in the sense he seems willing to learn/change, essentially an elite...but the working class seem to think that's not what is needed.
