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Leslie

Leslie Avatar

Location: Antioch, CA
Gender: Female

Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 8:15pm

Beaker wrote:

You do realize that there is such a thing as conservatives right here on RP, who hold a different opinion than you — on this topic.

Like the various religions, one day in the future, I'd like to see the terms that separate us - conservative, liberal, libertarian, nutbag ... eliminated from our conversations. Then we would be merely a group of people with interesting ideas and opinions on how to make this world a better place.

That's just crazy talk!

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan

Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 8:15pm
BillnDollarBaby wrote: But if we lose the term "nutbag" what will we call Slabby behind his back? I'm sure you'll think of something.

(former member)

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Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 8:13pm

Beaker wrote:

But if we lose the term "nutbag" what will we call Slabby behind his back?

zipper

zipper Avatar

Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 8:12pm
Lazy8 wrote: Doesn't make him wrong, tho—they are outnumbered. And in this case wrong as well, but...where was I going with this? off the crush list. :(

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan

Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 8:11pm
Xeric wrote: In a self-selected community. Which always makes me wonder . . . I mean . . . well, where was I going with that? ...back to the guns thread.

(former member)

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Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 8:10pm
Xeric wrote: In a self-selected community. Which always makes me wonder . . . I mean . . . well, where was I going with that? They aren't always outnumbered. Sometimes, it feels awfully lonely being a raving lib. It all depends on the time of day and the topic, me thinks. Or more than likely, me-don't-thinks. I am sleep deprived and on pain meds. What the hell am I talking about?

Xeric

Location: Montana
Gender: Male

Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 8:09pm
Lazy8 wrote: Doesn't make him wrong, tho—*they are* outnumbered**. And in this case wrong as well, but...where was I going with this? In a self-selected community. Which always makes me wonder . . . I mean . . . well, where was I going with that?

(former member)

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Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 8:07pm

AliGator wrote:

I've no qualms with your religion and its importance to you. I just want to know why religion has appropriated the term "marriage." And please forgive me for bringing up France again (I do it a lot here), but over there, the only legal marriage ceremony is the one performed by the mayor. You can be married by a priest (or other man of the cloth), but the only ceremony that is recognized by law is the one performed by the mayor of the town you're married in. And yet, people married by the mayor call themselves "mariés" and their union is a "marriage," whether they eventually have a ceremony in a church or not.

I was thinking that was France... don't you have two ceremonies? One legal and then one religious, assuming you want the religious one?

Lazy8

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male

Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 8:06pm
ScottFromWyoming wrote: Another conservative loner amongst all the RP libs? You people should start a clique or something. You'd have to have a lot of extra fingers to count just the conservatives who've said they're vastly outnumbered here. Doesn't make him wrong, tho—they are outnumbered. And in this case wrong as well, but...where was I going with this?

AliGator

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Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 8:05pm

musik_knut wrote:

Why is the term important to me? Because my religion is important to me. If that is a foreign concept to you and others, fine. And because my religion is important to me, its teachings are, too. I wasn't as religious as I am now until I was an 18 year old scared stiff kid hoping to stay alive in Nam...ok?

(former member)

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Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 8:01pm
Beanie wrote: Aaaaaagh!! I can't take it! Nobody is asking religion to broaden its definition of marriage. Just government. Sheesh. reallyreallygoingtobednow... As always, Ms. Beanie nails it.

(former member)

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Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 8:01pm
AliGator wrote: That's a whole other issue. Don't bring it in here. Tell me why the term "marriage" is so important to you. Do we need to separate people with the terms "marriage" and "civil unions"? Why? I've sent an email to my dad, a Protestant minister, asking him what he thinks about gay marriage. I can't wait to hear what he responds. Me too.

ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male

Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 8:00pm
musik_knut wrote: I suspect I am in a distinct minority in RP on this matter...I think I can count on one hand, those of Conservative bend like me... Another conservative loner amongst all the RP libs? You people should start a clique or something. You'd have to have a lot of extra fingers to count just the conservatives who've said they're vastly outnumbered here.

mem_313

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Location: Beachside, Paradise
Gender: Female

Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 7:59pm
oy vey. i gave back the only ring i was ever offered.

Beanie

Beanie Avatar

Location: under the jellicle moon
Gender: Female

Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 7:59pm
Aaaaaagh!! I can't take it! Nobody is asking religion to broaden its definition of marriage. Just government. Sheesh. reallyreallygoingtobednow...

Xeric

Location: Montana
Gender: Male

Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 7:58pm

musik_knut wrote:

That line is a sentiment I sense...ok?

Sure, okay. But it's more than that. It's what those who would define marriage strictly on religious grounds would insist upon.

My take: religious marriage, same-sex marriage, secular marriage . . . all legitimate marriages.

Religious take: religious marriage.

Which of those implies limitations? Which of those forces people who want marriage to toe some particular line?

dionysius

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Location: The People's Republic of Austin
Gender: Male

Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 7:57pm

musik_knut wrote:

It seems a good number would dictate, even demand, that religions broaden their definitions...that's not granting religious freedoms and freedoms of religions...

In June, I will be attending a wedding to be held on a golf course...to me, the venue is insignificant...so if anyone might think I'm such a strict ass on the topic and that only a Church may serve as the cite for a wedding, they would be wrong.
So, I am to mind my own business? In other words, suppress my thoughts on this matter? Sorry, but if that's the sentiment behind that statement, it quite simply and defiantly, won't happen. Ever. Of course, that seems to be part of the thrust by the majority in here...accept one definition...think alike...walk the line...show no variance from what is expected...genuflect...heel. I guess I'm what some would think of as an arrogant Conservative Republican: never yielding on my rights...

Time to move along...this has become a circular discussion...thanks to all who participated and showed civility...I do respect that despite any differences...

nite all... {#Sleep}

So...if nobody reasonable agrees with you, you close up shop and head home? That's a debate!

Wait a minute, that's religion. "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."

musik_knut

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Location: Third Stone From The Sun
Gender: Male

Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 7:56pm
AliGator wrote: Ok, then parenthood is not a right, yet people become parents all the time. I'm just saying, it's taken for granted in our society. We are free to marry who we want, unless we're gay, in which case, sorry, no dice. Ah, free to marry is not the same as the right to marry...

(former member)

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Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 7:56pm

musik_knut wrote:

Suddenly, everything is a right: I have the right to default on my mortgage and the Government must assist me...
Marriage is not a right...where does any statute speak of marriage rights? Bestow such a right?

You continue pushing the line about civil liberties...while overlooking my thoughts that Civil Unions should be recognized and in such Unions, no rights can be denied that are afforded all other 'unions'...I am not alone in that regard...seems your side of the issue isn't hearing my side: full rights, ALL rights, but not the term 'marriage'...

Perhaps many might wish it were so, but keeping religion out of this matter is impossible...

I might be wrong, but I am not aware of most religions denying Civil Unions...just the term 'marriage'.

You do not have the right to default on your mortgage. You entered into a legal contract. If you default, your mortage holder has the right to relief as outlined in the contract you signed. If your government chooses to bail you out, well, that's a whole 'nother conversation for a whole 'nother thread.

I am not pushing the line about CL. You have the CL to engage in whatever religous belief you want. How is it wrong to support CL? I am not following you on that part at all.

My denomination not only permits, but supports and works for the right for all citizens to be married on their own terms. It is possible to keep religon out of this matter, or any other for that matter. Many people simply choose not to. I do not believe that abortion is right, and would never have one. That is my personal choice based on my personal beliefs. However, I am pro-choice because my ethical beliefs should not make laws for someone else. They have to live with their actions if they choose to have one.

I hear and understand you, but I don't agree with the concept. Your description of all rights, except to the term marriage reeks of the "separate but equal" concept of segregation. It may have been the law, but it was still wrong. And time has proven that it was wrong. The majority of religions at the time supported government mandated hatred. Churches, historically, have not proven to be good law makers. Its why our fore-fathers tried to guarantee us the freedom to worship and believe as we saw fit.

musik_knut

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Location: Third Stone From The Sun
Gender: Male

Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 7:55pm
Xeric wrote: Again, dude, that is your line, not mine. And religion's stance on the matter, in general. Open thine eyes, brother. That line is a sentiment I sense...ok?

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