Like Samuel Clemens once said "I'd never join a club that would have me as a member"
Twain was talking about exclusion - about cliques. Those who think themselves too good to be around certain others are actually nothing like good enough, generally speaking.
What I'm talking about is expecting people here to behave like decent human beings. Rudeness gets a bad rep for a good reason: it's corrosive to any kind of healthy human interaction. Yes, politeness can be taken too far and used as a way to exclude people. But the basic concept is that if we all interact with each other respectfully and compassionately, we'll all get along better, make more friends, have more fun.
If we don't, we devolve into a bunch of noisy apes throwing crap at each other. I like to think we can do better.
Winter, you said: I see no reason why we shouldn't call them on their immature, inappropriate behavior until they either get the message or find the door.
I agree with your distinctions. My thought was that the, "find the door" part sometimes requires "showing the door". I would guess that threads that are quality would use the feature judiciously and sparingly. Although maybe I'm being unrealistic.
If someone is truly just getting worked up and goes off, odds are they'll back down and cool off when they're called on it. I'm not saying we write them off the first time. I've said some jerkish things here from time to time - we all have.
But it's too easy to let stuff slide with the whole "passionate" argument. As adults, we all learn how to control our emotions and behave appropriately. If someone is behaving like a jerk, the fact that they're passionate isn't much consolation to those on the receiving end of their jerkery.
I'm more concerned about patterns and repeat offenders. If people can't be bothered to act like grownups by showing respect to others even if they're Totally And Completely WRONG, or if they find amusement in being jerks, I have a problem with letting them off the hook.
So in essence you're saying, "Thank God Burning Man gives us a one-week reprieve once a year," right?
I came here for the music, and I still listen. But a few years back RP's forum became my watercooler, the place I engage with bright creative people with something in common. It's a lifeline.
During a particularly bad troll infestation I've pondered wandering off. The signal-to-noise ratio gets so low that a quick glance at the RAFT is all I need to know. It's driving good people away, the people I come here to engage with, the people who make this what I need.
And I need this.
Here's the rub: what you need you should be willing to pay for. RP is a commercial enterprise. Bill & Rebecca make their living from this. If the forum is more of a sideshow, a distraction, then it doesn't deserve the attention that keeping the stream on the air does and it won't get it. Maybe what the forum needs is a show of support.
My favorite idea so far for fixing the troll problem is an Ignore button, because it would allow us to solve the problem ourselves without Bill having to play forum cop. Remember, when Bill has to kick someone out he's alienating a potential subscriber. That's not something we should ask him to do, but we can ask him to make it easier for us to enjoy this place.
So here's what I'm proposing: vote with your wallets. Make it worth Bill's time to do this. Send some money, along with a polite message that this is a vote for an Ignore button to try to keep the forum civil.
How he implements it is up to him. Timetable, details, whether it's visible to the troll or not, all up to him. If he decides to do it I'm sure he'll welcome suggestions but the harder the problem the fewer constraints, and the less whining about it from us the better.
Let's stay positive, think positive, act positive. Put our money where our mouths are. If you already subscribe kick in a little extra this month.
I'm overdue for a donation and I'm making it today. I encourage like-minded folks to do the same.
Location: No longer in a hovel in effluent Damnville, VA Gender:
Posted:
Aug 21, 2012 - 11:09am
winter wrote:
Not at all.
There's a difference between setting up an "in crowd" and excluding those who don't fit in and creating/maintaining a healthy community that's safe and welcoming.
An in crowd is about who likes who, who "belongs", who is "the right kind of people". It's about conformity, not diversity.
A healthy community encourages diversity, and one of the ways it does that is by refusing to tolerate the intolerant. The foundation of a healthy community is respect for others, even if they're different. Trolls and flamers don't demonstrate that - they don't get it. They think respect for others is less important than getting their kicks or making their points. They don't value others. They value themselves.
That's what makes them jerks. The person who gets carried away and goes too far once in a while still understands that others deserve respect. But the person who makes a habit of being insulting and rude doesn't. And while they have a right to express themselves as they see fit, I see no reason why we shouldn't call them on their immature, inappropriate behavior until they either get the message or find the door.
Like Samuel Clemens once said "I'd never join a club that would have me as a member"
Exactly. Although I get your sarcasm, isn't that what excluding the trolls and "dicks" really all about?
Not at all.
There's a difference between setting up an "in crowd" and excluding those who don't fit in and creating/maintaining a healthy community that's safe and welcoming.
An in crowd is about who likes who, who "belongs", who is "the right kind of people". It's about conformity, not diversity.
A healthy community encourages diversity, and one of the ways it does that is by refusing to tolerate the intolerant. The foundation of a healthy community is respect for others, even if they're different. Trolls and flamers don't demonstrate that - they don't get it. They think respect for others is less important than getting their kicks or making their points. They don't value others. They value themselves.
That's what makes them jerks. The person who gets carried away and goes too far once in a while still understands that others deserve respect. But the person who makes a habit of being insulting and rude doesn't. And while they have a right to express themselves as they see fit, I see no reason why we shouldn't call them on their immature, inappropriate behavior until they either get the message or find the door.
