What exactly are you basing that statement on? What does he know nothing about?
Well, the life's work of the man he was criticizing, for one.
I never read a thing in his article that discredited Hitch's ability to write or research. He spoke the truth. That Hitchens railed against anyone that believes in God. The bulk of the rest of the article basically outlines questions asking such things as "Why morality if there is no God?" "Who gave Hitchens the gift of brilliance and the ability to move so many?" "What can be defined 'good' or 'evil' if there is no God?"
I'm still failing to see what either of you are talking about when you say that he wrote about things he knew nothing about. Please copy and paste the sentence(s) in that article that explain that. I'm exceptionally curious to know at this point.
No it does not. It's a religious person's perception about their religion that gives them a reason to hate others who are different. There is a principle in Christianity, for example, that many hardcore Christians don't seem to get, for example those fucknuts at Westboro Baptist Church. They give Christianity a horrible name and they should NOT be taken as any sort of example for us. Luke 11:9-12 says "So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened."
I am Christian. Winter and Lazy8 are atheist. It is not my place to judge them for not believing. It is not my responsibility to convert them. I am responsible for myself, my actions, my belief and my commitment to God. It is or is not God's plan to touch them in some way during the course of their lives to motivate them to seek and ask and knock. It is NOT up to me. Will I answer questions if asked? Abso-freakin'-lutely. Will I provide any knowledge that I can or assist them in finding it should they be interested? You bet. But it is not my place to shove my belief down their throats. It IS my responsibility to respect their views and beliefs. It is absolutely acceptable for me to love them as my brothers in this life.
So you see, it is absolutely NOT religion. "Christians" that judge are not Christians. Period. The faith is not to blame.
You are confusing spirituality with religion. Religion is the "club" that like minded believers belong to.
I am sure that you can find many examples of where religion has had a neutral or positive affect, but religion is not necessary to have the same affects. Religion gives people a reason to hate others who are different.
No it does not. It's a religious person's perception about their religion that gives them a reason to hate others who are different. There is a principle in Christianity, for example, that many hardcore Christians don't seem to get, for example those fucknuts at Westboro Baptist Church. They give Christianity a horrible name and they should NOT be taken as any sort of example for us. Luke 11:9-12 says "So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened."
I am Christian. Winter and Lazy8 are atheist. It is not my place to judge them for not believing. It is not my responsibility to convert them. I am responsible for myself, my actions, my belief and my commitment to God. It is or is not God's plan to touch them in some way during the course of their lives to motivate them to seek and ask and knock. It is NOT up to me. Will I answer questions if asked? Abso-freakin'-lutely. Will I provide any knowledge that I can or assist them in finding it should they be interested? You bet. But it is not my place to shove my belief down their throats. It IS my responsibility to respect their views and beliefs. It is absolutely acceptable for me to love them as my brothers in this life.
So you see, it is absolutely NOT religion. "Christians" that judge are not Christians. Period. The faith is not to blame.
It's not Hitchens' atheism itself I object to. It's his childish belief that "religion ruins everything." In other words, he believed religion alone was not just sufficient to cause destruction, it always ruins and corrupts everything it touches.
Have you actually read what Hitchens wrote? Not the noise and sanctimonious denunciations of what he wrote, what he actually wrote.
His thesis is not childish or simplistic, it's well-thought-out and subtle. I'll let the man explain it himself:
Egads! I barely got through the first paragraph without throwing up in my mouth a little.Sounds like it was written by a petulant 8 year old who has never left his neighborhood writing of something he knows nothing about.
What exactly are you basing that statement on? What does he know nothing about?
That is a very narrow, and inaccurate, definition of religion.
It's not the official definition, it's the way religion is used by society. A good example is the Catholic Church, which is as much a political structure as it is a religion.
One detrimental thing I believe religion has done is that having a patriarchal god destroyed the value of women in society and gave power to people where it didn't belong.
Yes that really did happen when civilization moved from hunter gatherer society where the women were in control of the social structures as the men provided sustinence which took them far away on hunting expeditions. As farming was developed and the men were sticking around more, they basically took over the religion and cast away the pagan female gods of fertility and replaced them with male gods which eventually became a monotheistic male God and the rest as they say is HIStory.
Well considering man came up with the idea of a patriarchal God, we can blame some chauvanistic men for that.
There isn't a whole lot of difference between religion and politics, religion is politics with a god (that is not money, but sometimes it is that too). It is a means of controlling masses of people.
indeed, and often those folks dropping scripture claim to not be religious. I always get a kick out of that...
Maybe we need a better description of religion:
From M-W: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
So, I believe that Jesus existed and it has been theorized that he studied in his "middle years" with Buddhist monks, which helped him to form his beliefs. So much of what he said has value in that context.
The New Testament has been interpreted and dismantled and remantled so many times that in my opinion, it does not stand as a reflection of what Jesus believed in or practiced.
One detrimental thing I believe religion has done is that having a patriarchal god destroyed the value of women in society and gave power to people where it didn't belong.
That would support my argument actually, which is those folks who have religious hatred are just plain haters, and the hatred is motivated by economics, social differences, biology, or any number of things. Religion provides an excuse but they could easily find another one.
I think that is probably true. There are a lot of faulty humans out there which is one of the main reasons why I support the death penalty. Callous? Sure, but when there are over 7 billion and exponentially rising people in the world there is no other choice. Hear me now, believe me later on.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Dec 21, 2011 - 7:28am
LordBaltimore wrote:
That would support my argument actually, which is those folks who have religious hatred are just plain haters, and the hatred is motivated by economics, social differences, biology, beer, or any number of things. Religion provides an excuse but they could easily find another one.
What do you make of a call for Jihad, and those who become conflicted as a result of that call?
We are generally talking about the connection between hatred and religion, and there are many people who claim to be religious, but couldn't even give one quote from the Bible, or will give a quote that is twisted to fit their needs.
Yes, if people were truly "religious", then the connection to hatred shouldn't really be there (theoretically). It is infuriating how people can cherry-pick an ambiguous passage or quote and turn it into a battle cry.
That was at a White Sox game. Father and son came out of the stands and attacked the first base ump. So drunk that one of them (maybe both) did not really even remember doing it.
That would support my argument actually, which is those folks who have religious hatred are just plain haters, and the hatred is motivated by economics, social differences, biology, or any number of things. Religion provides an excuse but they could easily find another one.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Dec 21, 2011 - 7:26am
oldviolin wrote:
Like the guys a few years ago at a baseball game rushing out onto the field and attacking an umpire. I think it was a father and son. Suspended beliefs or beliefs with suspenders. It all goes down the same funnel...
That was at a White Sox game. Father and son came out of the stands and attacked the first base ump. So drunk that one of them (maybe both) did not really even remember doing it.
We are generally talking about the connection between hatred and religion, and there are many people who claim to be religious, but couldn't even give one quote from the Bible, or will give a quote that is twisted to fit their needs.
indeed, and often those folks dropping scripture and claiming to not be religious. I always get a kick out of that...
A certain percentage of people want to be told what to think - whether or not they're religious. Some religious people are certainly obedient and non-questioning, but not all. The Bible is largely a series of moral stories and parables - open to individual interpretations. Obviously, completely surrendering to a religion or philosophy does make things easier for a lot of folks by giving them a reason not to think.
We are generally talking about the connection between hatred and religion, and there are many people who claim to be religious, but couldn't even give one quote from the Bible, or will give a quote that is twisted to fit their needs.
Edit: Everyone's belief is different, so to make a generalization about religious people is going to be off the mark.
Sounds like it was written by a petulant 8 year old who has never left his neighborhood writing of something he knows nothing about.
There are a lot of faulty humans out there which is one of the main reasons why I support the death penalty. Callous? Sure, but when there are over 7 billion and exponentially rising people in the world there is no other choice. Hear me now, believe me later on. 
