No? Well if you're not happy about the direction Bush is taking us, would you be happy supporting the direction Islamic Terrorists are taking the world? . As someone else has already noted, the choice is not so black and white. Voting Bush out doesn't mean one supports terrorism (though his ads would suggest as much). It means there may be other approaches to the problem. I feel US military aggression is flaming the fire in the Islamic world, and I'd like to see the US generally promote peace instead. There may be a need to fight at times, but lets make that the final option instead of the standard response. I see Bush and company always challenging the Arab world as a spiral leading downward to more death and destruction.

OK, to illustrate a bit more, for those who may have trouble wrapping their minds around the idea that Fascism (or "proto-fascism") could be a dominant political movement in our country: From wordiq.com: ( https://www.wordiq.com/cgi-bin/knowledge/lookup.cgi?title=Fascism ): Characterize the policies however you will: "kinder and gentler" (Bush I), "compassionate conservative" (Bush II)... "A rose by any other name is still a rose." And a Fascist by any other name is still a Fascist, in my book. steve PS: And this does all tie in with the Patriot Act. A hastily-enacted law ushered in by conveniently using (and whipping up) a climate of Fear, and targetted not only toward "terrorists" but also, potentially and probably, our own citizens.

Well if you're not happy about the direction Bush is taking us, would you be happy supporting the direction Islamic Terrorists are taking the world? . . . Question: Who do you want in control of the world, Bush, or Al Qaeda?

I don't think Bush had all his answers to foreign policy when he was running the first time, so I don't think it's realistic to expect too much from Kerry until he's on the job. Sometimes a choice is clear when you know what you don't want. I'd vote for a doorstop, a cherry danish or an agar plate before I'd support the direction Bush is taking the US and the world.

John Kerry represents exactly what I have posted about the war here. He is positioned against Bush, says he'd do things differently, but really doesn't say exactly what he'd do. I would hope that voters would demand these answers from him before they vote for him. Andrew Sullivan, Editor at the New Republic breaks down John Kerry's answers from the primary debate in Milwaukee: (click here)

I do, but I doubt you're gonna like it. Leave the role of "world policeman" to the UN. Since the primary motivation for the Iraq invasion was oil, let's develop renewable energy sources so that we can eventually end our dependence on foreign fossil fuel. The oil and natural gas deposits are going to dry up eventually. Why wait until they do? I know I'm going to get seriously flamed for the above. Whatever. If veegez can spew right-wing, flag-waving rhetoric, I'll take up the cause for the tree-hugging hippies.

Well, you can roll you're eyes at Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, the French, the Germans', the Russians' and the Chinese intelligence agencies for believing that Iraq had WMD's.

It's outrageous to hear people on the left pretend that no one except George Bush thought that Iraq had WMDs

Got a better, REALISTIC, VIABLE idea? Fine. State it.

Now in hindsight Saddam appears to have been a sadistic, paranoid tyrant without a single WMD. To each his own hype, I guess.

Say it enough times, and maybe some people will believe the hype, whether it is true or not.

The misinformation being bandied about regarding the Patriot Act being is staggering. I doubt Ricki has a clue about what it really does. But it sure is fun to bash Bush. Everyone together now "Bush Lied!". Good. Now try this. "John Ashcroft is the Devil!" Good. In unison, "The Patriot Act is the beginning of a new Nazi regime in America!" Better. Say it enough times, and maybe some people will believe the hype, whether it is true or not.

Dear idiot: I don't agree with what you say, but I will defend with my life your right to say it.

bla bla bla :iamwith:

The misinformation being bandied about regarding the Patriot Act being is staggering. I doubt Ricki has a clue about what it really does. But it sure is fun to bash Bush. Everyone together now "Bush Lied!". Good. Now try this. "John Ashcroft is the Devil!" Good. In unison, "The Patriot Act is the beginning of a new Nazi regime in America!" Better. Say it enough times, and maybe some people will believe the hype, whether it is true or not.

This is evidently about the Bush/Ashcroft conspiricy to dilute our privicy in the name of Homeland Security. So we can bascially through you in jail for no good reason and hold you there for as long as we like without explanation. Gets an 8 for just making the point. You won't hear about it on Fox News that's for sure.

If the Patriot Act ... forces a few malcontents to think twice before firing off their stupid yaps, more power to it.

"The word fascism has come to mean any system of government resembling Mussolini's, that exalts nation and often race above the individual, and uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition, engages in severe economic and social regimentation, and espouses nationalism and sometimes racism (ethnic nationalism)... "... Unlike the pre-World War II period, when many groups openly and proudly proclaimed themselves fascist, in the post-World War II period the term has taken on an extremely pejorative meaning, largely in reaction to the crimes against humanity undertaken by the Nazis. Today, very few groups proclaim themselves as fascist, and the term almost universally is used for groups for whom the speaker has little regard, often with minimal understanding of what the term actually means. As George Orwell in his 1946 essay "Politics and the English Language" famously complained, "The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies 'something not desirable.'" This negative association makes it unlikely that the fascist label will be used or accepted by any future regimes... "... The most common feature of fascism cited in contrast to socialism is the fact that neither Hitler nor Mussolini nationalized their nations' industries. Some contend that this difference is also more cosmetic than actual, since both leaders used extreme regulation to control industry, while leaving them in the hands of their owners... "... It is also possible, since Fascism incorporates corporatism, that a Fascist regime may de-facto nationalize certain key industries, simply by maintaining close personal and/or business relationships with the corporations' owners."

"There is something of a "loose-but-somewhat-coherent core" of social-political philosophy that holds the theoretical concept of fascism together. It is important to understand this. It is the attempt of capitalism in crisis to create a kind of all-class unity (in ultimate support of the capitalists) and to create a coherent grand theory with which the majority of the population can identify and draw both comfort and inspiration from. Of course it must marginalize, isolate, eventually attack those who don't cooperate, including those who fight against exploitation and for working class interests and, of course, others who are deemed to not "fit in" with the capitalist-imposed order, such as anti-war groups, ethnic minorities, etc. "My main point is that the fascists, themselves, and various proto-fascist (there's "that word" again, meaning, consistent with many aspects of fascist ideology, but not necessarily a declared fascist) politicians and ideologues do freely contradict/ abandon basic aspects of their philosophy when it suits them."

There are those that see yet comprehend not!

"There are none so blind as those who will not see." steve

Now look up the defenition of alarmist!

So, let's not any of us be "up to something", or even "KNOW someone who's up to something." Let's just all keep our mouths shut, our minds closed to all divergent ("subversive") viewpoints, and be good goose-stepping citizens in support Bush and Co. in this great "first war of the 21st century." After all, if current trends are any indication, we can all look forward to many more great and glorious wars to come. Oh, what joy! "Onward Fascist soldiers, marching as to war..." steve

So, let's not any of us be "up to something", or even "KNOW someone who's up to something." Let's just all keep our mouths shut, our minds closed to all divergent ("subversive") viewpoints, and be good goose-stepping citizens in support Bush and Co. in this great "first war of the 21st century." After all, if current trends are any indication, we can all look forward to many more great and glorious wars to come. Oh, what joy! "Onward Fascist soldiers, marching as to war..." steve

... Nobody's throwing... ME in jail because I'm NOT GIVING THEM A REASON TO, and neither is (are) the majority of Americans. If the Patriot Act jails the guilty and forces a few malcontents to think twice before firing off their stupid yaps, more power to it. Seems to me the ones howling the loudest about the PA are either up to something or KNOW someone who's up to something...

"Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace. It thus repudiates the doctrine of Pacifism -- born of a renunciation of the struggle and an act of cowardice in the face of sacrifice. War alone brings up to its highest tension all human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the peoples who have courage to meet it... "After Socialism, Fascism combats the whole complex system of democratic ideology, and repudiates it, whether in its theoretical premises or in its practical application. Fascism denies that the majority, by the simple fact that it is a majority, can direct human society; it denies that numbers alone can govern by means of a periodical consultation, and it affirms the immutable, beneficial, and fruitful inequality of mankind, which can never be permanently leveled through the mere operation of a mechanical process such as universal suffrage... "... Fascism denies, in democracy, the absurd conventional untruth of political equality dressed out in the garb of collective irresponsibility, and the myth of "happiness" and indefinite progress... "... given that the nineteenth century was the century of Socialism, of Liberalism, and of Democracy, it does not necessarily follow that the twentieth century must also be a century of Socialism, Liberalism and Democracy: political doctrines pass, but humanity remains, and it may rather be expected that this will be a century of authority... a century of Fascism. For if the nineteenth century was a century of individualism it may be expected that this will be the century of collectivism and hence the century of the State... (Note particularly this piece:) "...The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone... "... For Fascism, the growth of empire, that is to say the expansion of the nation, is an essential manifestation of vitality, and its opposite a sign of decadence. Peoples which are rising... are always imperialist; and renunciation is a sign of decay and of death... "... But empire demands discipline, the coordination of all forces and a deeply felt sense of duty and sacrifice: this fact explains many aspects of the practical working of the regime, the character of many forces in the State, and the necessarily severe measures (can you say "Patriot Act"?) which must be taken against those who would oppose this spontaneous and inevitable movement of Italy (read USA) in the twentieth (read 21st) century... "... If every age has its own characteristic doctrine, there are a thousand signs which point to Fascism as the characteristic doctrine of our time." - Italian Encyclopedia, 1932

you got that right! probably our only hope this year (since the dems are having trouble getting their act together) is that the idiot known as "dubya" wants to go to freakin' mars now with our tax money. maybe that'll be the only thing to wake up so-called patriots who wouldn't know their rights were being violated no matter how far they were bent over. TESTIFY-NOBUSH'04!! :o :( :) :D :x :!: :!: 8O 8O :ziplip: :ziplip: <-X <-X #-o :nodhead:

Malcontents should have to think twice about free speech?? Sorry pal, but stupid speech, including yours, deserves as much protection as speech that we agree with. The First Ammendment is pretty clear on that point, in that it makes no distinctions. And people opposed to the Patriot Act come from a variety of backgrounds. On the right and the left, those who know history - American history, world history - know that a majority willing to sacrifice civil rights for the illusion of security will end up with fewer rights and less security. Not-Bush '04!

Nobody's throwing (excuse me, "through"ing) ME in jail because I'm NOT GIVING THEM A REASON TO, and neither is the majority of Americans. If the Patriot Act jails the guilty and forces a few malcontents to think twice before firing off their stupid yaps, more power to it. Seems to me the ones howling the loudest about the PA are either up to something or KNOW someone who's up to something...

This is evidently about the Bush/Ashcroft conspiricy to dilute our privicy in the name of Homeland Security. So we can bascially through you in jail for no good reason and hold you there for as long as we like without explanation. Gets an 8 for just making the point. You won't hear about it on Fox News that's for sure.