Elton John — Indian Sunset
Album: Madman Across The WaterAvg rating:
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Length: 6:40
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As I awoke this evening with the smell of woodsmoke clinging.
Like a gentle cobweb hanging upon a painted teepee.
Oh I went to see my chieftain with my war lance and my woman.
For he told us that the yellow moon would very soon be leaving.
This I can't believe I said, I can't believe our Warlord's dead.
Oh, he would not leave the chose ones to the buzzards and the soldiers guns.
Oh, great father of the Iroquois ever since I was young,
I've read the writing of the smoke and breast-fed on the sound of drums.
I've learned to hurl the tomahawk and ride a painted pony wild.
To run the gauntlet of the Sioux, to make a chieftain's daughter mine.
And now you ask that I should watch the red man's race be slowly crushed!
What kind of words are these to hear from Yellow Dog, whom the white man fears?
I take only what is mine Lord, my pony, my squaw, and my child.
I can't stay to see you die along with my tribe's pride.
I go to search for the yellow moon and the Fathers of our sons,
Where the red sun sinks in the hills of gold, and the healing waters run.
Trampling down the prairie rose, leaving hoof tracks in the sand.
Those who wish to follow me, I welcome with my hands.
I heard from passing renegades Geronimo was dead,
He'd been laying down his weapons when they filled him full of lead.
Now there seems no reason why I should carry on,
In this land that once was my land, I can't find a home.
It's lonely and it's quiet and the horse soldiers are coming,
And I think it's time I strung my bow and ceased my senseless running.
For soon I'll find the yellow moon, along with my loved ones.
Where the buffaloes graze in clover fields without the sound of guns.
And the red sun sinks at last into the hills of gold
And peace to this young warrior comes with a bullet hole.
Like a gentle cobweb hanging upon a painted teepee.
Oh I went to see my chieftain with my war lance and my woman.
For he told us that the yellow moon would very soon be leaving.
This I can't believe I said, I can't believe our Warlord's dead.
Oh, he would not leave the chose ones to the buzzards and the soldiers guns.
Oh, great father of the Iroquois ever since I was young,
I've read the writing of the smoke and breast-fed on the sound of drums.
I've learned to hurl the tomahawk and ride a painted pony wild.
To run the gauntlet of the Sioux, to make a chieftain's daughter mine.
And now you ask that I should watch the red man's race be slowly crushed!
What kind of words are these to hear from Yellow Dog, whom the white man fears?
I take only what is mine Lord, my pony, my squaw, and my child.
I can't stay to see you die along with my tribe's pride.
I go to search for the yellow moon and the Fathers of our sons,
Where the red sun sinks in the hills of gold, and the healing waters run.
Trampling down the prairie rose, leaving hoof tracks in the sand.
Those who wish to follow me, I welcome with my hands.
I heard from passing renegades Geronimo was dead,
He'd been laying down his weapons when they filled him full of lead.
Now there seems no reason why I should carry on,
In this land that once was my land, I can't find a home.
It's lonely and it's quiet and the horse soldiers are coming,
And I think it's time I strung my bow and ceased my senseless running.
For soon I'll find the yellow moon, along with my loved ones.
Where the buffaloes graze in clover fields without the sound of guns.
And the red sun sinks at last into the hills of gold
And peace to this young warrior comes with a bullet hole.
Comments (92)add comment
When young folks ask me what I see in Elton Lion King John, I point then to this album. At his peak, he was something else.
thewiseking wrote:
hey now...don't knock that. i loved that when i was a kid. she (well, sonny and cher) was my first concert when i was 5 or 6.
C'mon people. It's better than Half Breed!
hey now...don't knock that. i loved that when i was a kid. she (well, sonny and cher) was my first concert when i was 5 or 6.
i honestly don't remember ever hearing this track before. it's pretty great!!
Amazing record at the the time. Still his best.
Eric_Denison wrote:
Fair critique. But Bernie always had a misplaced, romantic, colonial take on the American West. And the Civil War, for that matter. And, and...
He's a writer, not a historian.
c.
edit: Listening to this, now, tells me I need to put the album on out in the workshop. LOUD.
Always found this song condescending with a misplaced romantic, colonial take on what Europeans thought First Nations people should be. The term "squaw" makes me cringe.
He's a writer, not a historian.
c.
edit: Listening to this, now, tells me I need to put the album on out in the workshop. LOUD.
You may call it smaltzy, I call it epic.
easmann wrote:
The Little Ice Age arrived, slowly, around the 14th century. Climate change apparently due to change in the latitude of the jet stream. Bringing significant changes in the weather systems all over the world. It may be true that the death of 28 million people and the subsequent loss of CO2 emissions augmented the cooling climate, The deaths of 24 million Europeans in the 14th century from plague would have added to the loss of CO2. But initial push was a phenomenon of the 14th century.
Highlowsel wrote:
Indeed. Though by the time of the period written by Bernie and sung by Elton something like +90% of the Native American's were already dead; suffering what everyone now understands was a biological holocaust. Those first Indians to greet the first Europeans had no clue, nor did the Europeans for that matter, that they were greeting their deaths. A doom brought to them by ignorant plague carriers and all the rest. They didn't stand a chance against the onslaught of old world biology brought to them by a people almost desperately pursuing a better life than that which was being endured in the old world. They were dead tribes walking with that first hand-shake.
Today we have come to understand there was something like +30M people in continental North America at that time. Within a span of 30 years +90% of them were gone, leaving the vast continent open to the plague carriers. There's even a recognition that the blow-back from such a massive die-off is that weather temperatures across the northern hemisphere, and which impacted Europe with crop failures and such from that same period, stems from the die-off. How so? You take away the impact of +28M people making fires and there's a reduction in CO2 emissions and the rest, resulting in cooler temp's. Take that to all our climate change deniers of today. The native Indian die-off had that kind of impact. But the bottom line is history is distortedly written, as it always is, by the victors. And the spoils of all of it goes to the winner. This seems a rule in nature doesn't it? Same as it ever is I suppose.
In any case as smaltzy and inaccurate as this song is it has always had a place in my heart. Call it sentiment; call it an emotional connection; but it speaks to the inequities of the human condition. Life ain't about being fair; it's about survival. And so it goes.
Highlow
American Net'Zen
Today we have come to understand there was something like +30M people in continental North America at that time. Within a span of 30 years +90% of them were gone, leaving the vast continent open to the plague carriers. There's even a recognition that the blow-back from such a massive die-off is that weather temperatures across the northern hemisphere, and which impacted Europe with crop failures and such from that same period, stems from the die-off. How so? You take away the impact of +28M people making fires and there's a reduction in CO2 emissions and the rest, resulting in cooler temp's. Take that to all our climate change deniers of today. The native Indian die-off had that kind of impact. But the bottom line is history is distortedly written, as it always is, by the victors. And the spoils of all of it goes to the winner. This seems a rule in nature doesn't it? Same as it ever is I suppose.
In any case as smaltzy and inaccurate as this song is it has always had a place in my heart. Call it sentiment; call it an emotional connection; but it speaks to the inequities of the human condition. Life ain't about being fair; it's about survival. And so it goes.
Highlow
American Net'Zen
The Little Ice Age arrived, slowly, around the 14th century. Climate change apparently due to change in the latitude of the jet stream. Bringing significant changes in the weather systems all over the world. It may be true that the death of 28 million people and the subsequent loss of CO2 emissions augmented the cooling climate, The deaths of 24 million Europeans in the 14th century from plague would have added to the loss of CO2. But initial push was a phenomenon of the 14th century.
This tune is as historically accurate as 'Cortez The Killer'.
I happen to love both songs, despite their inaccuracy. NY and EJ/BT are musicians, not historians, and, news flash, musicians sometimes make stuff up.
Best,
c.
I happen to love both songs, despite their inaccuracy. NY and EJ/BT are musicians, not historians, and, news flash, musicians sometimes make stuff up.
Best,
c.
thewiseking wrote:
Mighty low bar...
c.
C'mon people. It's better than Half Breed!
c.
C'mon people. It's better than Half Breed!
What a voice 
#
mbriner wrote:
Agreed. A great song from is best album.
Genius... 10+
Agreed. A great song from is best album.
A magnificent song.
Always found this song condescending with a misplaced romantic, colonial take on what Europeans thought First Nations people should be. The term "squaw" makes me cringe.
Highlowsel wrote:
You make some good points. It's true that a percentage of the native population was doomed as soon as Europeans set foot on the North American continent due to lack of immunity to European diseases. However it's also true that the United States treated them like vermin to be exterminated, or, failing that, to be herded and corralled into the least valuable land available, unless and until that land proved to have some use (and repeatedly violated their own promises to their indigenous peoples). I think it is shameful how Native Americans are still treated today by a nation that purports to be a worldwide champion of human rights.
Your comments appear to have an air of "oh well, that's just the way the world works, it can't be helped." but I'm not sure if that was your intent.
Indeed. Though by the time of the period written by Bernie and sung by Elton something like +90% of the Native American's were already dead; suffering what everyone now understands was a biological holocaust. Those first Indians to greet the first Europeans had no clue, nor did the Europeans for that matter, that they were greeting their deaths. A doom brought to them by ignorant plague carriers and all the rest. They didn't stand a chance against the onslaught of old world biology brought to them by a people almost desperately pursuing a better life than that which was being endured in the old world. They were dead tribes walking with that first hand-shake.
Today we have come to understand there was something like +30M people in continental North America at that time. Within a span of 30 years +90% of them were gone, leaving the vast continent open to the plague carriers. There's even a recognition that the blow-back from such a massive die-off is that weather temperatures across the northern hemisphere, and which impacted Europe with crop failures and such from that same period, stems from the die-off. How so? You take away the impact of +28M people making fires and there's a reduction in CO2 emissions and the rest, resulting in cooler temp's. Take that to all our climate change deniers of today. The native Indian die-off had that kind of impact. But the bottom line is history is distortedly written, as it always is, by the victors. And the spoils of all of it goes to the winner. This seems a rule in nature doesn't it? Same as it ever is I suppose.
In any case as smaltzy and inaccurate as this song is it has always had a place in my heart. Call it sentiment; call it an emotional connection; but it speaks to the inequities of the human condition. Life ain't about being fair; it's about survival. And so it goes.
Highlow
American Net'Zen
Today we have come to understand there was something like +30M people in continental North America at that time. Within a span of 30 years +90% of them were gone, leaving the vast continent open to the plague carriers. There's even a recognition that the blow-back from such a massive die-off is that weather temperatures across the northern hemisphere, and which impacted Europe with crop failures and such from that same period, stems from the die-off. How so? You take away the impact of +28M people making fires and there's a reduction in CO2 emissions and the rest, resulting in cooler temp's. Take that to all our climate change deniers of today. The native Indian die-off had that kind of impact. But the bottom line is history is distortedly written, as it always is, by the victors. And the spoils of all of it goes to the winner. This seems a rule in nature doesn't it? Same as it ever is I suppose.
In any case as smaltzy and inaccurate as this song is it has always had a place in my heart. Call it sentiment; call it an emotional connection; but it speaks to the inequities of the human condition. Life ain't about being fair; it's about survival. And so it goes.
Highlow
American Net'Zen
You make some good points. It's true that a percentage of the native population was doomed as soon as Europeans set foot on the North American continent due to lack of immunity to European diseases. However it's also true that the United States treated them like vermin to be exterminated, or, failing that, to be herded and corralled into the least valuable land available, unless and until that land proved to have some use (and repeatedly violated their own promises to their indigenous peoples). I think it is shameful how Native Americans are still treated today by a nation that purports to be a worldwide champion of human rights.
Your comments appear to have an air of "oh well, that's just the way the world works, it can't be helped." but I'm not sure if that was your intent.
He was definitely best when working with Bern.
Dalebarely wrote:
Every musician, singer and songwriter ever did their best work early. There are no exceptions to this rule.
Your personal list of 9's and 10's is rife with exceptions to this very "rule".
Every musician, singer and songwriter ever did their best work early. There are no exceptions to this rule.
Your personal list of 9's and 10's is rife with exceptions to this very "rule".
below72 wrote:
Nice!
I read the strangest drivel on this site. "all artists best work was done when they were young - no exceptions" Who are you?
Oh yeah - you're one of those misanthropes, that likes to get a rise out of people, Huh? You liked Elton when he was part of YOUR youth (young, dumb, and full of...well, you know). Anyway, to the point, - here are just some of the artists that were better in later life (and sales figures don't lie.... there bucko): SINATRA, Bonnie Riatt, Green Day, Beethoven, Aerosmith, TINA TURNER, Johnny Cash...shall I go on?
Wake up...the coffee's brewin'
Oh yeah - you're one of those misanthropes, that likes to get a rise out of people, Huh? You liked Elton when he was part of YOUR youth (young, dumb, and full of...well, you know). Anyway, to the point, - here are just some of the artists that were better in later life (and sales figures don't lie.... there bucko): SINATRA, Bonnie Riatt, Green Day, Beethoven, Aerosmith, TINA TURNER, Johnny Cash...shall I go on?
Wake up...the coffee's brewin'
Nice!
easmann wrote:
Some day we'll need to face what we've done, and to some extent still do, to Native Americans. The sooner the better I say.
Yes, a poignant work of fiction. Though it's not hard to imagine that a wandering warrior might have heard a rumor that Geronimo had been gunned down in the act of surrender, even though it wasn't true, and might have believed it, especially if it aligned with his worldview (Geronimo surrendered several times but was never shot down). Those who passed the information most likely would have also believed it. That sort of thing still happens on a national scale today.
I think the power of this song is not in the accuracy of some of the historical facts or its depiction of tribal culture, it's not a history lesson, however, like a short story, it places the listener in the heart and mind of someone personally affected by historical events that did happen: the wholesale slaughter of peoples and cultures, all in the name of Manifest Destiny. The survivors stripped of their lands and their dignity.
It's odd you know, we have so many SF stories in which technologically superior aliens show up, take over, and the heroic Natives fight them desperately to survive. That's exactly what happened to Native Americans. Those tribes who tried to cooperate didn't fare much better.
Anyway, a nine from me on this one. Peace, one hopes, eventually.
Indeed. Though by the time of the period written by Bernie and sung by Elton something like +90% of the Native American's were already dead; suffering what everyone now understands was a biological holocaust. Those first Indians to greet the first Europeans had no clue, nor did the Europeans for that matter, that they were greeting their deaths. A doom brought to them by ignorant plague carriers and all the rest. They didn't stand a chance against the onslaught of old world biology brought to them by a people almost desperately pursuing a better life than that which was being endured in the old world. They were dead tribes walking with that first hand-shake.
Today we have come to understand there was something like +30M people in continental North America at that time. Within a span of 30 years +90% of them were gone, leaving the vast continent open to the plague carriers. There's even a recognition that the blow-back from such a massive die-off is that weather temperatures across the northern hemisphere, and which impacted Europe with crop failures and such from that same period, stems from the die-off. How so? You take away the impact of +28M people making fires and there's a reduction in CO2 emissions and the rest, resulting in cooler temp's. Take that to all our climate change deniers of today. The native Indian die-off had that kind of impact. But the bottom line is history is distortedly written, as it always is, by the victors. And the spoils of all of it goes to the winner. This seems a rule in nature doesn't it? Same as it ever is I suppose.
In any case as smaltzy and inaccurate as this song is it has always had a place in my heart. Call it sentiment; call it an emotional connection; but it speaks to the inequities of the human condition. Life ain't about being fair; it's about survival. And so it goes.
Highlow
American Net'Zen
Some day we'll need to face what we've done, and to some extent still do, to Native Americans. The sooner the better I say.
Yes, a poignant work of fiction. Though it's not hard to imagine that a wandering warrior might have heard a rumor that Geronimo had been gunned down in the act of surrender, even though it wasn't true, and might have believed it, especially if it aligned with his worldview (Geronimo surrendered several times but was never shot down). Those who passed the information most likely would have also believed it. That sort of thing still happens on a national scale today.
I think the power of this song is not in the accuracy of some of the historical facts or its depiction of tribal culture, it's not a history lesson, however, like a short story, it places the listener in the heart and mind of someone personally affected by historical events that did happen: the wholesale slaughter of peoples and cultures, all in the name of Manifest Destiny. The survivors stripped of their lands and their dignity.
It's odd you know, we have so many SF stories in which technologically superior aliens show up, take over, and the heroic Natives fight them desperately to survive. That's exactly what happened to Native Americans. Those tribes who tried to cooperate didn't fare much better.
Anyway, a nine from me on this one. Peace, one hopes, eventually.
Indeed. Though by the time of the period written by Bernie and sung by Elton something like +90% of the Native American's were already dead; suffering what everyone now understands was a biological holocaust. Those first Indians to greet the first Europeans had no clue, nor did the Europeans for that matter, that they were greeting their deaths. A doom brought to them by ignorant plague carriers and all the rest. They didn't stand a chance against the onslaught of old world biology brought to them by a people almost desperately pursuing a better life than that which was being endured in the old world. They were dead tribes walking with that first hand-shake.
Today we have come to understand there was something like +30M people in continental North America at that time. Within a span of 30 years +90% of them were gone, leaving the vast continent open to the plague carriers. There's even a recognition that the blow-back from such a massive die-off is that weather temperatures across the northern hemisphere, and which impacted Europe with crop failures and such from that same period, stems from the die-off. How so? You take away the impact of +28M people making fires and there's a reduction in CO2 emissions and the rest, resulting in cooler temp's. Take that to all our climate change deniers of today. The native Indian die-off had that kind of impact. But the bottom line is history is distortedly written, as it always is, by the victors. And the spoils of all of it goes to the winner. This seems a rule in nature doesn't it? Same as it ever is I suppose.
In any case as smaltzy and inaccurate as this song is it has always had a place in my heart. Call it sentiment; call it an emotional connection; but it speaks to the inequities of the human condition. Life ain't about being fair; it's about survival. And so it goes.
Highlow
American Net'Zen
a much better version...just Elton and Ray Cooper
https://youtu.be/1S9I4EpFdiA
https://youtu.be/1S9I4EpFdiA
Genius... 10+
linden wrote:
cc_rider wrote:
Some day we'll need to face what we've done, and to some extent still do, to Native Americans. The sooner the better I say.
Yes, a poignant work of fiction. Though it's not hard to imagine that a wandering warrior might have heard a rumor that Geronimo had been gunned down in the act of surrender, even though it wasn't true, and might have believed it, especially if it aligned with his worldview (Geronimo surrendered several times but was never shot down). Those who passed the information most likely would have also believed it. That sort of thing still happens on a national scale today.
I think the power of this song is not in the accuracy of some of the historical facts or its depiction of tribal culture, it's not a history lesson, however, like a short story, it places the listener in the heart and mind of someone personally affected by historical events that did happen: the wholesale slaughter of peoples and cultures, all in the name of Manifest Destiny. The survivors stripped of their lands and their dignity.
It's odd you know, we have so many SF stories in which technologically superior aliens show up, take over, and the heroic Native Humans fight them desperately to survive. That's exactly what happened to Native Americans. Those tribes who tried to cooperate didn't fare much better.
Anyway, a nine from me on this one. Peace, one hopes, eventually.
I like early Elton/Bernie as much as the next person, but man is this song silly. I know people who aren't from the U.S. can't be expected to have an in-depth knowledge of American history, but would Elton and Bernie mix together the Irish, English and Welsh in the same song like they're all the same? Sheesh.
Sure, it's a mess, fact-wise. Have you listened to 'Tumbleweed Connection'? Same mish-mash of historical nonsense. Bernie writes lyrics, not historical treatises. Bernie writes from his emotions, and facts often get lost in the shuffle. Worse, Elton has been known to throw out lyrics that don't fit, muddying the water further still. Just enjoy it (or not) for what it is, don't try to analyze too much.
Some day we'll need to face what we've done, and to some extent still do, to Native Americans. The sooner the better I say.
Yes, a poignant work of fiction. Though it's not hard to imagine that a wandering warrior might have heard a rumor that Geronimo had been gunned down in the act of surrender, even though it wasn't true, and might have believed it, especially if it aligned with his worldview (Geronimo surrendered several times but was never shot down). Those who passed the information most likely would have also believed it. That sort of thing still happens on a national scale today.
I think the power of this song is not in the accuracy of some of the historical facts or its depiction of tribal culture, it's not a history lesson, however, like a short story, it places the listener in the heart and mind of someone personally affected by historical events that did happen: the wholesale slaughter of peoples and cultures, all in the name of Manifest Destiny. The survivors stripped of their lands and their dignity.
It's odd you know, we have so many SF stories in which technologically superior aliens show up, take over, and the heroic Native Humans fight them desperately to survive. That's exactly what happened to Native Americans. Those tribes who tried to cooperate didn't fare much better.
Anyway, a nine from me on this one. Peace, one hopes, eventually.
cc_rider wrote:
Oh, the whole lyric is straight from Bernie Taupin, a country boy from Nowheresville, England. Bernie is famously fascinated by the American West and the Civil War, but he is very short on historical accuracy. He can be forgiven: what do us Yanks know about Agincourt or Hastings, for example. He was just writing music, not researching actual events. Don't read too much into his lyrics, that way lies madness.
I an always intrigued by people who think that a place a few miles from a cathedral built in the early 1200's is "nowheresville". Perhaps it is, if you are historically challenged.
Oh, the whole lyric is straight from Bernie Taupin, a country boy from Nowheresville, England. Bernie is famously fascinated by the American West and the Civil War, but he is very short on historical accuracy. He can be forgiven: what do us Yanks know about Agincourt or Hastings, for example. He was just writing music, not researching actual events. Don't read too much into his lyrics, that way lies madness.
I an always intrigued by people who think that a place a few miles from a cathedral built in the early 1200's is "nowheresville". Perhaps it is, if you are historically challenged.
Dalebarely wrote:
Every musician, singer and songwriter ever did their best work early. There are no exceptions to this rule.
That is often true in most creative endeavors but there are exceptions. Alex Chilton and Stevie Wonder come to mind. I guess it also depends on one's definition of the word "early". It does seem like rock 'n' roll is primarily a young man's game, that once once they attain fame and fortune and get older, they lose their edge and their original drive.
Every musician, singer and songwriter ever did their best work early. There are no exceptions to this rule.
That is often true in most creative endeavors but there are exceptions. Alex Chilton and Stevie Wonder come to mind. I guess it also depends on one's definition of the word "early". It does seem like rock 'n' roll is primarily a young man's game, that once once they attain fame and fortune and get older, they lose their edge and their original drive.
I read the strangest drivel on this site. "all artists best work was done when they were young - no exceptions" Who are you?
Oh yeah - you're one of those misanthropes, that likes to get a rise out of people, Huh? You liked Elton when he was part of YOUR youth (young, dumb, and full of...well, you know). Anyway, to the point, - here are just some of the artists that were better in later life (and sales figures don't lie.... there bucko): SINATRA, Bonnie Riatt, Green Day, Beethoven, Aerosmith, TINA TURNER, Johnny Cash...shall I go on?
Wake up...the coffee's brewin'
Oh yeah - you're one of those misanthropes, that likes to get a rise out of people, Huh? You liked Elton when he was part of YOUR youth (young, dumb, and full of...well, you know). Anyway, to the point, - here are just some of the artists that were better in later life (and sales figures don't lie.... there bucko): SINATRA, Bonnie Riatt, Green Day, Beethoven, Aerosmith, TINA TURNER, Johnny Cash...shall I go on?
Wake up...the coffee's brewin'
Dalebarely wrote:
Every musician, singer and songwriter ever did their best work early. There are no exceptions to this rule.
Yes, and Beethoven's Symphony No. 9 is a testament to your insight.
Every musician, singer and songwriter ever did their best work early. There are no exceptions to this rule.
Yes, and Beethoven's Symphony No. 9 is a testament to your insight.
xkolibuul wrote:
Nonsense. There are always exceptions. Look at Bruce Cockburn. He produced a simply stunning run of albums from mid 90s to about 2005, and has been around for years, since the early 70s. Or Paul Simon. Graceland is every bit as good as S&G's early work. No exceptions, eh? Utter tosh.
I don't know if Bruce is a good example. His first two albums were superb - especially High Winds White Sky. But he announced that he would no longer perform those songs because he wrote them before he was born again. Such a shame. Hitchens was right, it does spoil everything.
Nonsense. There are always exceptions. Look at Bruce Cockburn. He produced a simply stunning run of albums from mid 90s to about 2005, and has been around for years, since the early 70s. Or Paul Simon. Graceland is every bit as good as S&G's early work. No exceptions, eh? Utter tosh.
I don't know if Bruce is a good example. His first two albums were superb - especially High Winds White Sky. But he announced that he would no longer perform those songs because he wrote them before he was born again. Such a shame. Hitchens was right, it does spoil everything.
Dalebarely wrote:
Every musician, singer and songwriter ever did their best work early. There are no exceptions to this rule.
Nonsense. There are always exceptions. Look at Bruce Cockburn. He produced a simply stunning run of albums from mid 90s to about 2005, and has been around for years, since the early 70s. Or Paul Simon. Graceland is every bit as good as S&G's early work. No exceptions, eh? Utter tosh.
Every musician, singer and songwriter ever did their best work early. There are no exceptions to this rule.
Nonsense. There are always exceptions. Look at Bruce Cockburn. He produced a simply stunning run of albums from mid 90s to about 2005, and has been around for years, since the early 70s. Or Paul Simon. Graceland is every bit as good as S&G's early work. No exceptions, eh? Utter tosh.
ozzie1313 wrote:
Every musician, singer and songwriter ever did their best work early. There are no exceptions to this rule.
I loved this album and although everything Elton did was musically sound none of it appealed to me after this. Steve Miller, Rod Stewart, Cheryl Crow and many others did their best work early.
Every musician, singer and songwriter ever did their best work early. There are no exceptions to this rule.
linden wrote:
Sure, it's a mess, fact-wise. Have you listened to 'Tumbleweed Connection'? Same mish-mash of historical nonsense. Bernie writes lyrics, not historical treatises. Bernie writes from his emotions, and facts often get lost in the shuffle. Worse, Elton has been known to throw out lyrics that don't fit, muddying the water further still. Just enjoy it (or not) for what it is, don't try to analyze too much.
I like early Elton/Bernie as much as the next person, but man is this song silly. I know people who aren't from the U.S. can't be expected to have an in-depth knowledge of American history, but would Elton and Bernie mix together the Irish, English and Welsh in the same song like they're all the same? Sheesh.
Sure, it's a mess, fact-wise. Have you listened to 'Tumbleweed Connection'? Same mish-mash of historical nonsense. Bernie writes lyrics, not historical treatises. Bernie writes from his emotions, and facts often get lost in the shuffle. Worse, Elton has been known to throw out lyrics that don't fit, muddying the water further still. Just enjoy it (or not) for what it is, don't try to analyze too much.
imnotpc wrote:
Agreed, what a stinking pile this one is.
Worst Elton John song I've ever heard. Had to turn it off...
Agreed, what a stinking pile this one is.
I like early Elton/Bernie as much as the next person, but man is this song silly. I know people who aren't from the U.S. can't be expected to have an in-depth knowledge of American history, but would Elton and Bernie mix together the Irish, English and Welsh in the same song like they're all the same? Sheesh.
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
just upped my rating....
just upped my rating....
cc_rider wrote:
Nope.
I caught myself singing this in my head this weekend. And Bill plays it on Monday. Coincidence?
Nope.
Madman Across the Water is one of the albums I got when it first came out but never replaced on CD. I always forget there is more to this album than Tiny Dancer and Levon.
I loved this album and although everything Elton did was musically sound none of it appealed to me after this. Steve Miller, Rod Stewart, Cheryl Crow and many others did their best work early.
Yikes.
I caught myself singing this in my head this weekend. And Bill plays it on Monday. Coincidence?
cc_rider wrote:
A subtle difference: the culture and history of the US is often "learned" through television and movies, which often leads to fantastically incorrect interpretations of actual events.
It's like learning about English history from Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, Braveheart, and any movie with "Knight" in the title.
... what do us Yanks know about Agincourt or Hastings, for example.
A subtle difference: the culture and history of the US is often "learned" through television and movies, which often leads to fantastically incorrect interpretations of actual events.
It's like learning about English history from Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, Braveheart, and any movie with "Knight" in the title.
"...and peace to this young warrior comes with a bullet hole"
One of my favorite lines from a tune, so sue me...
One of my favorite lines from a tune, so sue me...
sieversfam wrote:
Really!
I am having trouble determining which white, non-US artist's song on Native American plight is worse.. This song, or Europe's "Trail of Tears."
Europe had better hair.
....pinhead
Really!
I am having trouble determining which white, non-US artist's song on Native American plight is worse.. This song, or Europe's "Trail of Tears."
Europe had better hair.
....pinhead
One of his best, to me..anyway! BT's lyrics are really very eloquent poetry! But the musical arrangements-prob. Paul Buckmaster or Gus Dudgeon-take it the rest of the way home.....powerful & deep at the same time!!!
Cynaera wrote:
I can't analyze Elton John/Bernie Taupin albums, because each has its own charm and its own shame. I try to take each one on its own merits, but I confess, I have my favorites. I love "Rock of the Westies" because of the absolute dominance of Davey Johnstone's guitar work and the backing vocals. I love "Caribou" because of "Ticking." I love "Honky Chateau" because of the mood the entire album evokes in me (like the runes album by Zep - I can't single out one song; I have to listen to the whole thing.)
EJ had a bad stretch of music, but even at his worst, he was better than most artists, if only for his incredible piano playing and his determination. I've got nothing bad to say about him. (Oh, okay - "Island Girl," "Candle in the Wind," "Bennie and the Jets," and "Crocodile Rock," but with a track record as long and impressive as his, I think he can be excused for a few clunkers.)
Yep.EJ had a bad stretch of music, but even at his worst, he was better than most artists, if only for his incredible piano playing and his determination. I've got nothing bad to say about him. (Oh, okay - "Island Girl," "Candle in the Wind," "Bennie and the Jets," and "Crocodile Rock," but with a track record as long and impressive as his, I think he can be excused for a few clunkers.)
DanO-1 wrote:
Really??
Really!
I am having trouble determining which white, non-US artist's song on Native American plight is worse.. This song, or Europe's "Trail of Tears."
Europe had better hair.
Really??
Really!
I am having trouble determining which white, non-US artist's song on Native American plight is worse.. This song, or Europe's "Trail of Tears."
Europe had better hair.
BigTimber wrote:
Oh, the whole lyric is straight from Bernie Taupin, a country boy from Nowheresville, England. Bernie is famously fascinated by the American West and the Civil War, but he is very short on historical accuracy. He can be forgiven: what do us Yanks know about Agincourt or Hastings, for example. He was just writing music, not researching actual events. Don't read too much into his lyrics, that way lies madness.
This song was played a while back but I just now am able to write my comment. I found it interesting that much of the imagery seemed like a montage of stereotypes strung together (for instance, not every Native American lived in a tipi, those of the northwest and northeast used wood to make longhouses and some in the southwest used stone to build elaborate structures). I was wondering if there was any sort of backlash to this. It is cool that he was giving a shout out to different tribes from across what is now the US with various languages, cultures, and histories...I suppose it would have just made more sense to me if he had stuck with one tribe located in one particular location and focused on their unique history.
Now, I don't want to cause any bad vibes because I actually really dig EJ and I realize what he did here was a tribute of sorts, just was wondering what others thought about this. Thanks!
Now, I don't want to cause any bad vibes because I actually really dig EJ and I realize what he did here was a tribute of sorts, just was wondering what others thought about this. Thanks!
Oh, the whole lyric is straight from Bernie Taupin, a country boy from Nowheresville, England. Bernie is famously fascinated by the American West and the Civil War, but he is very short on historical accuracy. He can be forgiven: what do us Yanks know about Agincourt or Hastings, for example. He was just writing music, not researching actual events. Don't read too much into his lyrics, that way lies madness.
imnotpc wrote:
Really??
Worst Elton John song I've ever heard. Had to turn it off...
Really??
This isn't a terrible song. It's pretty ok, as is a lot of the work on this album. The problem wit this album is that we hear WAY too much of it here.
Seriously, I'd just as soon hear more "good old Ludwig Van". He didn't suck either. Do we have to hear his 9th EVERY day?
Seriously, I'd just as soon hear more "good old Ludwig Van". He didn't suck either. Do we have to hear his 9th EVERY day?
I can't analyze Elton John/Bernie Taupin albums, because each has its own charm and its own shame. I try to take each one on its own merits, but I confess, I have my favorites. I love "Rock of the Westies" because of the absolute dominance of Davey Johnstone's guitar work and the backing vocals. I love "Caribou" because of "Ticking." I love "Honky Chateau" because of the mood the entire album evokes in me (like the runes album by Zep - I can't single out one song; I have to listen to the whole thing.)
EJ had a bad stretch of music, but even at his worst, he was better than most artists, if only for his incredible piano playing and his determination. I've got nothing bad to say about him. (Oh, okay - "Island Girl," "Candle in the Wind," "Bennie and the Jets," and "Crocodile Rock," but with a track record as long and impressive as his, I think he can be excused for a few clunkers.)
EJ had a bad stretch of music, but even at his worst, he was better than most artists, if only for his incredible piano playing and his determination. I've got nothing bad to say about him. (Oh, okay - "Island Girl," "Candle in the Wind," "Bennie and the Jets," and "Crocodile Rock," but with a track record as long and impressive as his, I think he can be excused for a few clunkers.)
Pure schmaltz! I logged in just to give this a 1 - my first ever. I generally love Elton's early stuff, but this is far from his best.
This is my favourite songs off one of my favourite albums. John so eloquently and passionately captures the tragedy of the end of Indian culture in the US. No matter how many times I hear this song, it brings tears to my eyes. Brilliant!
Worst Elton John song I've ever heard. Had to turn it off...
This song was played a while back but I just now am able to write my comment. I found it interesting that much of the imagery seemed like a montage of stereotypes strung together (for instance, not every Native American lived in a tipi, those of the northwest and northeast used wood to make longhouses and some in the southwest used stone to build elaborate structures). I was wondering if there was any sort of backlash to this. It is cool that he was giving a shout out to different tribes from across what is now the US with various languages, cultures, and histories...I suppose it would have just made more sense to me if he had stuck with one tribe located in one particular location and focused on their unique history.
Now, I don't want to cause any bad vibes because I actually really dig EJ and I realize what he did here was a tribute of sorts, just was wondering what others thought about this. Thanks!
Now, I don't want to cause any bad vibes because I actually really dig EJ and I realize what he did here was a tribute of sorts, just was wondering what others thought about this. Thanks!
jgirl63 wrote:
"Candle in the Wind" was released in 1973 - relatively early in their careers.
Classic Elton John. The seventies were unsurpassed for EjJ/BT team.
"Candle in the Wind" doesn't hold a candle to his early work.
"Candle in the Wind" doesn't hold a candle to his early work.
"Candle in the Wind" was released in 1973 - relatively early in their careers.
classic elton/bernie song.. one of the few ever written about the near extermination of the native american....
remember AIM (American Indian Movement)? Russell Means, an activist, was wrongly imprisoned for many years for allegedly shooting a federal agent... he was THE Last Mohican in the movie.. a little movie trivia for y'all....
remember AIM (American Indian Movement)? Russell Means, an activist, was wrongly imprisoned for many years for allegedly shooting a federal agent... he was THE Last Mohican in the movie.. a little movie trivia for y'all....
CoolbeaN wrote:
I have always liked Elton John. Here is another example why.
I've never liked elton john... Here is annother example why.
I have always liked Elton John. Here is another example why.
Great!
Peyote wrote:
Yes. Yes it does.
This song puts a lump in my throat everytime!
Yes. Yes it does.
Great native american theme set Bill. How about Iron Maiden's "Run For the Hills" next or Nugent's "Great White Buffalo." Ok, probably never on RP but would be fun to hear!
Terrible.
Nice pairing of tunes...I was passively listening to the prior number by Jesse Colin Young and caught myself thinking it was a remake of this Elton tune (until I listened more closely).
jgirl63 wrote:
Classic Elton John. The seventies were unsurpassed for EjJ/BT team.
"Candle in the Wind" doesn't hold a candle to his early work.
At the time of its release, CitW was pretty amazing, a wonderful tribute to a tragic figure. Reworking it for Diana was a bit crass, in my opinion."Candle in the Wind" doesn't hold a candle to his early work.
An absolutely eloquent use of poetry, strings, and piano!! The words blend so well with each chord, and vice versa!! Kinda says it all when you talk about the impact these two made on music during that period...BT sent him the words, and he made it sound like this!!!
...and yes, Gus Dudgeon engineered masterfully!!
Gus Dudgeon I think produced this album and Tumbleweed Connection. I think he also produced Shawn Phillips album from the same period. May have been same arranger for the strings. Liked the sound on all three.
Classic Elton John. The seventies were unsurpassed for EjJ/BT team.
"Candle in the Wind" doesn't hold a candle to his early work.
"Candle in the Wind" doesn't hold a candle to his early work.
I love the ghetto gospel version of this
Zeke19 wrote:
Well, really it was Bernie who was/is obsessed with the American West and the Civil War.
I remember in Junior High, our music teacher played this for us, three times. We had to write about what it meant and how it made us feel. I went and bought 'Madman' that weekend.
Edit: Damn. Listening to it again, now, it grabs me just as much as it did then.
I'm sure that most Native Americans in the mid-late 19th Century could easily relate to Elton John's eclectic shoe fetish and fabulous stage presence.
Well, really it was Bernie who was/is obsessed with the American West and the Civil War.
I remember in Junior High, our music teacher played this for us, three times. We had to write about what it meant and how it made us feel. I went and bought 'Madman' that weekend.
Edit: Damn. Listening to it again, now, it grabs me just as much as it did then.
Zeke19 wrote:
Thanks for a much needed LOL-moment here in cubicle hell on a cold and rainy Monday morning.
I'm sure that most Native Americans in the mid-late 19th Century could easily relate to Elton John's eclectic shoe fetish and fabulous stage presence.
Thanks for a much needed LOL-moment here in cubicle hell on a cold and rainy Monday morning.
Um dos maiores exemplos da genialidade de Elton John. Logo no início percebe-se a beleza desta canção somente com o vocal.
This is not one of Elton's better songs. In my opinion, Madman Across The Water is quite the cumbersome album; weighted down by it's own pretensions.
Tumbleweed Connection is a much more sincere effort, filled with better songs. But for capturing the essence of what the John/Taupin team was, complete with better songs, Honky Chateau and Don't Shoot Me are as good as they got.
bryceharrington wrote:
Please, no more EJ. I get too much of that on the sappy local radio station...
Regardless of who is now playing on RP, why in god's name are you listening to a "sappy local station"? Throw in cassette, plop in a disk, switch on your I-Pod, hell, sing to yourself....but stop griping about a song on RP because you're apparently unable to keep yourself away from your "sappy local station."
And FWIW, I seriously doubt you're hearing this EJ song on any mainstream radio.
I'm sure that most Native Americans in the mid-late 19th Century could easily relate to Elton John's eclectic shoe fetish and fabulous stage presence.
I've never heard this one before.Not sure if I like it.
Bat_Man wrote:
......It's lonely and it's quiet and the horse soldiers are coming, and I think it's time I strung my bow and ceased my senseless running.... For soon I find the yellow moon, along with my loved ones. Where the buffaloes graze in clover fields without the sound of guns........
and peace to this young warrior comes with a bullethole!
It is a good day to die.
Jinx I was listening to this this morning!! I thought my cd player was overriding RP on my player!! This song puts a lump in my throat everytime!
Make it stop please, please, oh for the love of all that is good make it stop.
bryceharrington wrote:
Please, no more EJ. I get too much of that on the sappy local radio station...
Bite your tongue, young man! Don't tell me you've heard THIS EJ song on the radio. I have been listening to the radio since this album came out, and I have NEVER heard this song!!
Please, no more EJ. I get too much of that on the sappy local radio station...
mread wrote:
No argument. EJ/Taupin at their best. Singles from other albums may have topped Madman, but as an album, it was the best. Tumbleweed Connection would be a very close second.
I'll put Tumbleweed Connection as a sentimental first, but no argument on those two. Honky Chateau not far behind either (everything but Rocket Man). Hey Bill, can we hear "Amoreena" sometime?
Originally Posted by guybejammin:
One of the best from what is, arguably, his best album. Thanks Bill!
No argument. EJ/Taupin at their best. Singles from other albums may have topped Madman, but as an album, it was the best. Tumbleweed Connection would be a very close second.
I always listened to the other side of the album (Tiny Dancer, Levon, Madman Across the Water, etc.) so when I bought the CD a few years ago, I was amazed by this song. Sure, not his best, but there are incredible moments in the song. Good to hear it again.
Bill,
More from this album! I\'ve hated everything EJ has done after 1975, but this album is a masterpiece! Indian Sunset isn\'t the best song, but it\'s so great to just to hear someone remember it.
Paul
I love this album! However, this is one song that doesn\'t measure up to the rest. Maybe it\'s because the music doesn\'t seem to mesh well with the storyline of the lyrics.
I\'ve never liked elton john... Here is annother example why.
He did his best works way back when, but this isn\'t one of them
Great choice. Ironically, I was just thinking the other day that I would welcome hearing ANYTHING from this album on RP. Thanks.
One of the best from what is, arguably, his best album. Thanks Bill!
An excellent story-song, haven\'t heard this in quite a while. Thanks for playing it! :)