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R_P

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Posted: Aug 22, 2025 - 3:42pm



rgio

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Posted: Aug 22, 2025 - 1:33pm

 Proclivities wrote:

Well, I guess they do publish relatively truthy stuff on occasion.  I had read that ten-year CBO projection elsewhere but the top of the tweet seems pretty accurate as well: as you (and everyone should) know, American consumers ultimately pay those tariffs, despite what Trump - and even Lutnick - claim.  Of course, last week, Trump even claimed that â€œTrillions of dollars are being taken in on tariffs”.


Appreciating that Trump is firing people who publish numbers he doesn't like...

From the CBO page:

As of August 19, we estimate that the effective tariff rate for goods imported into the United States has increased by about 18 percentage points when measured against 2024 trade flows. We project that increases in tariffs implemented during the period from January 6, 2025, to August 19 will decrease primary deficits (which exclude net outlays for interest) by $3.3 trillion if the higher tariffs persist for the 2025‒2035 period. By reducing the need for federal borrowing, those tariff collections will also reduce federal outlays for interest by an additional $0.7 trillion. As a result, the changes in tariffs will reduce total deficits by $4.0 trillion altogether.

So they are taking credit for both the payment, and the interest avoided by making the payment.   That's like buying something with your credit card, and claiming you saved money because you paid off the balance.

The details aren't yet available (September release), but like Trumps tax cuts in term #1, there is surely some very healthy economic growth driving the tariff revenues. When prices go up, consumption goes down....but somehow these miraculous tariffs only raise revenue and fix trade imbalances.

There is no way the numbers work....but "the best people" are now in charge of the reporting, so what could possibly go wrong?
Proclivities

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Posted: Aug 22, 2025 - 1:13pm

 R_P wrote:

Please point out what's wrong with the tweet regardless of the source.

Tariffs will lower deficits by $4 trillion over a decade, CBO says

Well, I guess they do publish relatively truthy stuff on occasion.  I had read that ten-year CBO projection elsewhere but the top of the tweet seems more accurate: as you (and everyone should) know, American consumers ultimately pay those tariffs, despite what Trump - and even Lutnick - claim.  Of course, last week, Trump even claimed that “Trillions of dollars are being taken in on tariffs”.
R_P

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Posted: Aug 22, 2025 - 12:41pm

 Proclivities wrote:
Ah yes, Leading Report.

Please point out what's wrong with the tweet regardless of the source.

Tariffs will lower deficits by $4 trillion over a decade, CBO says


Also read some Chomsky so you'll know that most approved (corporate) sources are problematic in one way or another.
Proclivities

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Posted: Aug 22, 2025 - 12:26pm

 R_P wrote:


Ah yes, Leading Report.
R_P

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Posted: Aug 22, 2025 - 11:47am


R_P

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Posted: Aug 20, 2025 - 9:35am

Former Soros Fund Management honcho

rgio

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Posted: Aug 20, 2025 - 4:32am

The impact of tariffs has so far had limited impact on consumer prices.  That's about to change... and it's gonna get painful pretty quickly when the floodgates open.

Companies can't hold the line on prices much longer

Good thing we have "the best people" managing the reporting now.  Can't wait until they tell us inflation and unemployment are down when the experience of buying things and finding a job don't support that.  



R_P

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Posted: Aug 18, 2025 - 1:50pm

Trump trade advisor Peter Navarro wrote a very hostile op-ed in the FT today targeting India over its purchases of Russian oil, and threatening cessation of technology transfer and other retaliatory measures. The thing that does not make sense is that if the U.S. is anyways interested in rebuilding ties with Russia why is it so offended by India purchasing Russian oil?

There is a significant hostility which may be explained by frustration over India declining to reduce protectionist measures in its own economy and open it up to U.S. competition.

black321

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Posted: Aug 18, 2025 - 10:42am

 rgio wrote:

When you prevent dividends... you reduce the access to capital, again harming the industry you're attempting to help/support/grow.



Doesnt hold, since most dividends are not reinvested in the Company, but the financial markets. 
rgio

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Posted: Aug 18, 2025 - 9:20am

 black321 wrote:
A U.S. manufacturer with a respectable 7 percent profit margin might want to use those profits to invest in expanded operations. But, with tariffs, those profits don’t stretch quite as far. Construction materials and new equipment are simply more expensive. The business may choose to hold onto those earnings or pay them out as dividends to shareholders rather than grow their business.

This is where we need to raise taxes on the "rich." Disincentivize excess shareholder returns so more capital is reinvested. 

When you prevent dividends... you reduce the access to capital, again harming the industry you're attempting to help/support/grow.

Raising taxes and lowering tariffs would help manufacturing grow.

black321

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Posted: Aug 18, 2025 - 9:02am

 rgio wrote:

This is an informed, logical summation of why Trump's lack of vision and understanding undermines his own motivations.

Bringing manufacturing back to the US.... good.   Imposing tariffs that have spiked manufacturing costs... bad.  3 steps forward, 2 steps back (with another step or two back on the horizon)

A Tax Law for Manufacturers, but a Trade Policy Against Them




right.


A U.S. manufacturer with a respectable 7 percent profit margin might want to use those profits to invest in expanded operations. But, with tariffs, those profits don’t stretch quite as far. Construction materials and new equipment are simply more expensive. The business may choose to hold onto those earnings or pay them out as dividends to shareholders rather than grow their business.

This is where we need to raise taxes on the "rich." Disincentivize excess shareholder returns so more capital is reinvested. 
rgio

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Posted: Aug 18, 2025 - 8:23am

This is an informed, logical summation of why Trump's lack of vision and understanding undermines his own motivations.

Bringing manufacturing back to the US.... good.   Imposing tariffs that have spiked manufacturing costs... bad.  3 steps forward, 2 steps back (with another step or two back on the horizon)

A Tax Law for Manufacturers, but a Trade Policy Against Them


Proclivities

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Posted: Aug 12, 2025 - 10:27am

Trump’s pick for BLS commissioner suggests suspending the monthly jobs report
Kind of like Trump's answer to growing cases of Covid: just stop testing for it and the number of cases will go down.

Trump wants to hide the consequences of his bad policies by manipulating BLS data—it won’t work
"Trump’s attempt to politicize BLS means that policymakers and the public wouldn’t be able to trust the data. If this happens, confidence in U.S. data will collapse and reasonable economic decision-making will be impossible. This manufactured chaos will reduce business investment and consumer spending, making a recession—and soaring unemployment—far more likely in coming months. Between illegal firings of public servants, starving data agencies of needed resources, and now political intimidation, the U.S. looks set to run into the next economic downturn flying blind."
black321

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Posted: Aug 12, 2025 - 8:47am

CPI data out today, core goods inflation (excl food and energy) rose to a two year high of 3.1%.
Another interesting trend which is expected to continue - energy/gas was down 1.6%/9% YOY. But electricity and gas service still up, 5.5%/13.8%.
Some of this is due to higher national gas prices, due to shifts in global demand (more exports)....but higher consumer utility bills are also being driven by investments to upgrade aging grids, data centers to power AI/tech, and... the rollback of clean energy credits. Then there is the demand from "bringing back manufacturing"...
more dots to connect...dot dot dot

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/08/1...


R_P

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Posted: Aug 11, 2025 - 3:50pm


black321

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Posted: Aug 11, 2025 - 10:30am




The differences and intentions are obvious, but under both dems and repubs, the federal government has actively engaged in economic affairs through strategic subsidies, ownership stakes, and executive directives moving our economy more towards China "state capitalism."  

The U.S. Marches Toward State Capitalism With American Characteristics

A generation ago conventional wisdom held that as China liberalized, its economy would come to resemble America’s. Instead, capitalism in America is starting to look like China.

Recent examples include President Trump’s demand that Intel’s chief executive resign; the 15% of certain chip sales to China that Nvidia and Advanced Micro Devices will share with Washington; the “golden share” Washington will get in U.S. Steel as a condition of Nippon Steel’s takeover; and the $1.5 trillion of promised investment from trading partners Trump plans to personally direct.

The federal government has often waded into the corporate world. It commandeered production during World War II and, under the Defense Production Act, emergencies such as the Covid-19 pandemic. It bailed out banks and car companies during the 2007-09 financial crisis. Those, however, were temporary expedients.

Former President Joe Biden went further, seeking to shape the actual structure of industry. His Inflation Reduction Act authorized $400 billion in clean-energy loans. The Chips and Science Act earmarked $39 billion in subsidies for domestic semiconductor manufacturing. Of that, $8.5 billion went to Intel, giving Trump leverage to demand the removal of its CEO over past ties to China. (Intel so far has refused.)

State capitalism is a means of political, not just economic, control. Xi ruthlessly deploys economic levers to crush any challenge to party primacy. In 2020, Alibaba co-founder Jack Ma, arguably the country’s most famous business leader, criticized Chinese regulators for stifling financial innovation. Retaliation was swift. Regulators canceled the initial public offering of Ma’s financial company, Ant Group, and eventually fined it $2.8 billion for anticompetitive behavior. Ma briefly disappeared from public view.

Trump has similarly deployed executive orders and regulatory powers against media companies, banks, law firms and other companies he believes oppose him, while rewarding executives who align themselves with his priorities.

In Trump’s first term, CEOs routinely spoke out when they disagreed with his policies such as on immigration and trade. Now, they shower him with donations and praise, or are mostly silent.

American democracy constrains the state through an independent judiciary, free speech, due process and the diffusion of power among multiple levels and branches of government. How far state capitalism ultimately displaces free-market capitalism in the U.S. depends on how well those checks and balances hold up.




black321

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Posted: Aug 8, 2025 - 7:40am

 R_P wrote:



looks like the two grumpy guys from the muppets
R_P

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Posted: Aug 7, 2025 - 4:37pm


Red_Dragon

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Posted: Aug 7, 2025 - 2:32pm

 R_P wrote:



That's exactly where we are. End-stage Capitalism.
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